There's been some talk lately about what is the highest AB possible in the Badlands. After some thought, I thought it'd be fun to get everyone's ideas for a build with maximum AB. There are a few rules though: 1) Use of True Strike is not an option. Here's why, it only lasts for a few seconds and there are no scrolls available to purchase in the Badlands.
2) Furthermore, you can only use scrolls (or wands) available to purchase from a store (no transferred scrolls or wands). As of my writing this, I think the only purchasable scroll that will boost your AB is Bless.
3) It is assumed that any activated skills, feats, or spells will provide maximum benefit. (for example, empowered Bull's Strength will give +7 to STR).
4) Obviously, you can only use Badlands subraces and items/equipment available in the module.
5) All builds are assumed to hit maximum level (60 for ECL 0)
Here's my first attempt at a maximum AB build. I was hoping to hit 90, but I only got it up to 89. Here's how I did it:
Barbarian21/Cleric15/Bard4 (Barbarian 1-20)
Half-orc/Ogrillon subrace
Strength: 23 (starting)+10(abil)+12(uberBB)+9(legend abil)+10(GrtSTR)+8(mighty rage)= 72(+31)
AB = 30(BAB)+31(STR)+3(EWF)+1(EpProw)=65
Buffs= +7(wpn)+5(divine fav)+2(battletide)+3(prayer/aid/bless)+1(bard song)=83
with maxed Taunt and full effect (lowers opponent AC by 6), I get 83+6=89.
I look forward to everyone's ideas. Maybe next week, we'll have a builder's challenge to see who can come up with the highest AC possible!
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17 comments:
A Deep-Orc would be a better place to start for this MAX AB contest.
Is damage part of the challenge? What about AC and stuff? Or is it strictly AB? Is it STR based AB or can DEX builds enter also?
For this challenge, let's just focus on strict AB. (We can look at maximum damage output in a different challenge)!
Dexers are welcome, but since you're able to crank STR higher than any other ability, I just assumed all entered builds would be Str-based.
I chose Ogrillon for my attempt at max AB because they don't receive the Wis penalty that deep orcs receive, and I took 15 levels of cleric.
But remember, you can choose any subrace! And since deep orcs make great bards, I'm sure someone will attempt this challenge starting with that subrace.
Shark Bait is in this category already. My focus on this toon / build was for max STR and nothing else.
I started with a Deep Orc and 21 Barbarian levels. At level 22 I took 1 Bard level followed by 10 RDD levels. I followed this up with more Barbarian levels and a 2nd Bard level at 40.
Deep Orc allowed me to start with 24 STR. Blindvision 60 feet is always welcomed, although I would have preferred Spell Resistance.
From Barbarian I get some damage reduction, certainly not enough to matter in a realm as rough and tumble as BadLands RPG. Barbarians are known for their ability to withstand pain and abuse, and their higher than normal Hit Points reflects this.
Mighty Rage +8 works here because of the UBER Barbarian System that Q built.
Bard gets me the ability to take RDD class levels and Tumble, UMD skills. By taking a final Bard at level 40, I was able to put 40 skills on both Tumble and UMD. This gets me +8 AC and the ability to use any item or scroll (I don't have Exotic Weapons Proficiency so I can't use those weapons). Bard song gets me +1 AB for short lengths.
Ten RDD (Red Dragon Disciple) levels gave me +4 AC, +8 STR, +2 CON, +2 INT, +2 CHA and immunities to Fire and some other stuff.
My basic plan was to take all 10 Greater Strength Feats for max STR. But, I wanted Dev Crit as well as all 3 Epic Rage Feats, Mighty Rage, Terrifying Rage and Thundering Rage. This meant I had to sacrifice 2 STR feats. I think I lost 2 AB to get the five strength based feats. I had to take 2 Greater CON Feats to get my CON up to 25 for this.
My weapon is the Great Axe. I chose it because it has the highest amount of damage, 1d12 and x3 Critical damage. I'm hoping for for the combined efforts of the feats: Overwhelming Crit and Thundering Rage to do some massive damage. To bad I can't add Weapon Master to this :(
Shark Bait is now level 41 and can wreck some havoc. He won't have all these feats until level 58 where his ECL 2 stops him.
Your deep orc (Shark Bait) above is definitely a Badlands Badass. If it were me, I would've built him like this:
Ogrillon
generation stats: Str20;Dex8;Con12;Int14;Wis8;Chr6
with subrace, those change to Str24;Con16;Int10;Chr3 (for some reason, you can't go lower than 3 on a stat!)
I like Ogrillon for this build for a couple reasons. First, you get WF greataxe for free, and since these Barbarians are feat-starved, that extra feat really helps. Second, you can sport your tower shield in the other hand, and because the dev-shield is an amazing piece of equipment, I always try to use it if I can. Third, the awesome Con boost from Ogrillon means you start with con16... tack on +12 from Uber Barbarian, then +2 from RDD and your "base" Con score becomes 30! This is really important because you'll meet any prereq that requires Con AND those Con pts will carry over when you level up in legendary. I.e., barbarian d12 + 10 from con = 22 hp each legendary level. Assuming you take him to lvl 58, that'll be another 396 HP!
Now for the feats:
1)Power attack
**1) WF greataxe (subrace)
3)Cleave
6)Grt Cleave
9)Heavy armor prof.
12)Imp. Crit. Greataxe
15)*your choice* (Knockdown)
18)*your choice* (Blindfight)
21)Mighty rage
24)Overwhelming crit.
27)Dev. crit.
30)Epic WF
33,36,etc...57) Grt. Str.I-IX.
ALL abilities go into Strength. This means at level 58, he'd have a BASE str of 72!! Mighty rage will add +8, and Bull's Str. will add +4, to get to 84 (or +37 modifier). This is just plain sick!
(note: I forego Epic Prowess, since I wanted to 'square up' str, and the end AB was the same, but I get an extra +1 to dmg and dev crit DC).
Okay, now for his dev crit DC... 20 +10 +37(str mod) = 67,,, that's VERY tough to beat for non-PM opponents. I haven't calculated damage output for this thug yet, but I bet with a new Dark Ritual greataxe, it'd be sickening.
BTW, max AB for this guy (while raging/bull's str/bless/bardsong/+7wpn) would be 79. Not the highest AB possible for certain, but I wouldn't want to meet this guy in a dark alley in the Newport Docks!!!
I didn't read all these loooong posts but overall it seems like some interesting build ideas are being throwing around :D
I liked Troll Not's imput but I may say that I'd rather sacrifice the rdd levels for wm and some str and con for enough dex and int.
Fact is, in a fair fight between a good criter and a big guy holding a large weapon, 90% of the time, the big guy falls down humiliated by the rapier/scimi/kukri user.
I remember once, a very long time ago.. around Sephka's time (wow, that was indeed ages ago...) when he was still leveling his first mage, probably the Gandalf dude and I was hanging around with him, playing with a melee.
We had a little encounter with a dwarf rdd called xxx Master of The Stick (the xxx represents his first name, which of course, I don't remember.. suffice to say that it was one of terry's chars) outside Newport, right on the Path Of The Beaten. Gandalf was put down fast, caught of guard.. and we had a go at each other.. My char was an average fighter/bard/rdd weilding a scimi and the dwarf was a bard/wm/rdd..
Anyways, he had the famous and legendary Touch Of The Wicked, Meph's spear, which is.. I think, +8 and VORPAL..
Of course since he didn't crit nearly as often as he'd have liked, I had the upper hand with some lucky crits and he fell..
Now imagine wm instead of rdd.. wm is one of my favorite classes.. higher damage and easier crits are enough to beat down most of the so called "uber" builds.. most of the time..
Jim wrote
There's been some talk lately about what is the highest AB possible in the Badlands.
Hmm, lol.. my post was about build stuff but now I see that the topic was really about the highest ab possible... doh me!! :)
lololol
I agree with Deimonos, in that a well balanced/built dever with a wide crit range is very tough. With a tweaks, you come up with one of my all-time favorite builds- the Bd/RDD/PM!
But yes, this post is about simple AB. Obviously, these are all hypothetical builds and unless you play on the Badlands A LOT and you're experienced, I don't suggest you try these builds at home :)
Garble called me with a good idea for an Arcane Archer with an AB that meets or exceeds the ones posted thus far. I'll let him comment on that build when he does some math on it.
Jim Brannick said...
Your deep orc (Shark Bait) above is definitely a Badlands Badass. If it were me, I would've built him like this:
Ogrillon generation stats: Str20;Dex8;Con12;Int14;Wis8;Chr6
with subrace, those change to Str24;Con16;Int10;Chr3 (for some reason, you can't go lower than 3 on a stat!)
I like Ogrillon for this build for a couple reasons. First, you get WF greataxe for free, and since these Barbarians are feat-starved, that extra feat really helps. Second, you can sport your tower shield in the other hand, and because the dev-shield is an amazing piece of equipment, I always try to use it if I can. Third, the awesome Con boost from Ogrillon means you start with con16... tack on +12 from Uber Barbarian, then +2 from RDD and your "base" Con score becomes 30! This is really important because you'll meet any prereq that requires Con AND those Con pts will carry over when you level up in legendary. I.e., barbarian d12 + 10 from con = 22 hp each legendary level. Assuming you take him to lvl 58, that'll be another 396 HP!
Bioware does not recognize stats lower than 3. We were able to start Ogres with INT 2, but we were having inconsistent problems with that race getting damaged. I added a check to prevent starting with INT 2 and the problem seems to have gone away.
The +12 STR and CON that a UBER Barbarian gets is suppose to be treated the same as if it was still on his armor and not on his person.
You need to subtract 12 from STR and CON at level-up to see if you actually meet the requirements. Please do not EXPLOIT this
I did later add a checking system. Unfortunately, in the epic levels I can't do anything until AFTER the player levels up. Then I all I can do is remove your level and slap you around.
In the Legendary Levels, I can do what I want when I want. I did set it to check for, and not offer what you don't qualify for. If this has been damaged, I will need to fix it.
The UBER Barbarian does has it's exploitable parts. Please do not abuse this. Honor is key here.
Self defense, simply repeating myself, or justifying my choices, this what I did and why with Shark Bait.
My primary focus was to get as much strength as a could. Period.
My secondary concern was to get as much damage as possible.
I chose Deep Orc and Great Axe because I can start with 24 STR and get damage times 1.5 for holding the Great Axe with both hands.
I chose RDD levels over WM to get the +8 STR to help with my primary focus: Max STR.
I chose Great Axe over Great Sword because of the 1d12 base damage instead of the 2d6 that the Great Sword has. Bioware lists 1d12 as being better than 2d6. It's probably a wash in the end and a Great Sword is probably faster and has a better crit range, but only a x2 crit). Eventually, I will find the +24 Mêlée shop and be able to finish building my Great Axe with 3 elements of 1d12 each and Keen and +5 EB.
My base damage at level 39 is 1d12 +31. (This +31 is from STR and will grow as my STR grows.) When I hit in a critical blow, I have Overwhelming Crit and Thundering Rage. This adds 2d6 and 2d8 damage. So, 1d12 (base) +31 (physical) +1d12 (fire) +1d12 (divine) +1d12 (magical) +2d6 (overwhelm) +2d8 (thunder) times 3 (critical multiplier) is (93 x 3) 279 points of damage maximum possible.
Hmm, I forgot to add in Power Attack. I did not take Improved Power Attack....but....
Don't forget I can hit on a Dev Crit for instant death.
I do agree this is not a well balanced design. I do suffer from low AC as well as low saves. And I am not very fast. But my focus was Strength then Damage.
Anybody want a couple of good whacks in row from Shark Bait? 300 once, 300 twice, 300 gone to the Mage in the front row. He didn't even have time to say ouch.
Q,
Thanks for the explanation on the Uber barbarian exploit thing. Simon, Garble and I had always wondered what you meant by exploit for that, since the explanation is fairly convoluted in the Stone Conjoint (what does one expect, the guy doing the explaining is a filthy orc). But since we never play barbarians, we never bothered to ask you or deimonos about it.
Perhaps this will help anyone who still is not certain:
If you start a half-orc with a 15 Con at generation, then select Ogrillon subrace, you get to 19 Con. After your 7th level of RDD, you get to Con 21. Assuming your Str is 21 or better, you meet the mighty rage requirements. This is all WITHOUT considering the +12 STR and CON you may have gotten from the Uber barbarian.
If you DO select mighty rage without meeting those requirements, lots of bad and nasty things will happen to your toon... including (but not limited to) incurring the Wrath of Q, and/or having Mors/Elric/Jormungandr hunt you down and open a can of Badlands Whupass.
And BTW, will people please post their maximum AB build ideas here! I appreciate all the uber barbarian talk, but that was the original idea of this topic.
I was mistaken about Shark Baits level. I originally posted him as being level 41, but he was only 38 at that time. Shark Bait is now level 41 and nearly level 42.
At level 40, while making Slaad Salad in the Dank Tunnels I was hitting for 180++ often enough. The best Critical Hit I saw was 216.
Shark Bait is currently level 41.
The stats are:
Unbuffed: HP 936; AC 59; AB 59;
Damage 1d12 +31; STR 53; CON 33
Raged: HP 1069; AC 59; AB 63;
Damage 1d12 +37 STR 61; CON 41
Buffed: HP 1181; AC 60; AB 68;
Damage 1d12 +41 STR 65; CON 45
With only 2 Bard levels, buffs from scrolls don't last long enough to matter, but for short burst, AC, AB and Damage as well as concealment and damage reduction can really help.
Barbarian 12, Bard 18, Red Dragon Disciple 10.
BAB = 28
Deep-Orc:
Str 24, RDD +8 Str, level 58 +19 Str, 10 epic feats +10 Str, uber barbarian +12 Str.
Sub Total = 73 Str
Str Buffs:
rage +4 Str, empowered bull str +7 Str.
Sub Total = +11 Str
Total = 84 Str (+37 AB bonus)
Feats:
Weapon Focus (+1 AB), Epic Weapon Focus (+2 AB), Epic Prowess (+1 AB)
Base AB 69
Attack Buffs:
+7 Simitar (+7), Warcry (+2), Bard Song (+2), Bless Scroll (+1)
Total AB at level 58 = 81
Effective AB with Taunt (6) and Curse Song (5) is 92.
That is 8 AB short of the Attack Cap, self buffed. So would be up to 100 AB effective with player made scrolls/wands.
with that much Str, for the love of God, use the Dark Ritual Axe for 1.5 Damage :)
For strict AB?
Assuming Self-Buffed only...
Standard Elf
stat:(Base)(60)(Bonus)
Str: 08 20 +5
Dex: 20 62 +26
Con: 10 22 +6
Int: 10 10 +0
Wis: 15 15 +2
Cha: 08 08 -1
Cleric 12/Bard 2/Arcane Archer 26
Cleric 12/Bard 1/AA 26/Bard 1
Non-capped Attack Bonus
BAB=26, Arcane Archer Enchant=13, Dexterity=26, Weapon Focus=1, Epic Weapon Focus=2, Epic Prowess=1
Non-capped Total=69
Capped Attack Bonus
Weapon Enchantment=5, Divine Power=4, Divine Favor=4, Battletide=2, Aid=1, Bless=1, Prayer=1, Bard Song=1
Capped Bonus Total=19
Attack Bonus Total=88
Taunt(rank 43, effective 52 [naked]): Maybe high enough to get a -6 to AC.
Pre-Epic Feats:
Curse Song, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Extend Spell, Improved Critical (Longbow), Dodge, Mobility
Epic Feats:
Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Great Constitution 1-3, Epic Skill Focus (Taunt)
Arcane Archer Bonus Feats:
Great Dexterity 1-4
Legendary Feats:
Great Constitution 4, Great Dexterity 5-10
I took Great Con as filler feats; in all likelihood, I would probably put saving throw feats in those spots.
Shark Bait achieved level 58 finally, the max level for an ECL 2 Deep Orc.
I am RDD 10, Bard 2, Barbarian 28.
I took 21 Barbarian levels, 1 Bard, 10 RDD, 7 Barbarian and 1 Bard. At level-ups, I bought 40 Tumble and 40 UMD (so I could use the Green Dragon Armor even though I'm not Good or Evil). I bought as much Intimidate, Discipline and Heal (in that order of importance) as I could. I bought 5 Search so I could find a few Quest Items that can't be found otherwise.
While taking my 10 RDD levels, I had to alternate with Barbarian on the Feat Levels so I could get my Barbarian specific feats.
I waited until level 22 to start Bard so I would not lose AB and I could start with 25 Tumble (+5 AC) and 25 UMD (scroll buffs).
I started with low Cha 10 and relied on RDD for +2 Cha. The second level of Bard gave me all my spells that I had not received earlier because I now had the proper Cha of 12. Actually, I started with Cha 6, Deep Orc gave me +4 and RDD gave +2. Charisma and Wisdom based spells are retroactive while Int based spell are not.
Feat List at level 58:
Armor Proficiency light , medium, heavy.
Armor Skin
Barbarian Fast Movement
Bard Song
Bardic Knowledge
Blindsight 60 feet
Cleave
Darkvision
Devastating Critical (greataxe)
Draconic Armor
Dragon Abilities
Dragon Breath
Epic Barbarian
Epic Barbarian Damage Reduction
Epic Character
Epic Weapon Focus (greataxe)
Great Cleave
Great Constitution I
Great Strength VII
Greater Rage
Hit Die Increase (d10)
Immunity to Fire
Immunity to Paralysis
Immunity to Sleep
Mighty Rage
Mount Actions
Overwhelming Critical (greataxe)
Power Attack
Shield Proficiency
Terrifying Rage
Thundering Rage
Toughness
Uncanny Dodge VI+
Weapon Focus (double axe)
Weapon Focus (greataxe)
Weapon Proficiency (martial)
Weapon Proficiency (simple)
Statistics (naked, rested)
Str 68 +29
Dex 6 - 2
Con 33 +11
Int 12 + 1
Wis 6 - 2
Cha 12 + 1
AC 22
HP 1344
AB (unarmed) +59/54/49/44
Damage 1-3+29 (crit 20 / x2)
Fort 37
Reflex 18
Will 18
BAB 30
SR 0
Statistics (dressed, buffed, raging)
Str 80 +35
Dex 18 + 1
Con 44 +17
Int 24 + 7
Wis 18 + 4
Cha 20 + 5
AC 61
HP 1587
Weapon (Dark Ritual)
AB +78 /73/68/63
Damage 1-12 +52 (crit 19-20 x3)
Fort 53
Reflex 37
Will 39
Properties on Weapon (Dark Ritual)
AB +1 (temp)(bard song)
Sonic Damage 3 (temp)(rage)
Massive Crits 2d10 (temp) (Thundering Rage)
On Hit: Dark Fire lvl 2 (temp)(scroll)
On Hit: Deafening Clang lvl 5 (temp)(scroll)
On Hit: Deafness DC 26 (temp)(rage)
Damage Fire 5 (perm)
Enhancement Bonus +7 (perm)
Vampiric Regen +5 (perm)
Statistics (dressed, buffed, raging)
Weapon: Widow Maker / Shield: Devastation Shield
AC 72
AB +75/70/65/60
--------
My focus was Brute Strength, not a well balanced toon or anything else. Granted, some compromises can be made to get a better all-around character, but I got what I wanted, RAW STRENGTH and BIG DAMAGE.
There are any number of changes that could make this toon more playable, but that is for another discussion.
Shark Bait's accomplishes are:
Bosses killed (alone)
Badass: level 40 or 42
Sleeping Dragon
Sheelo: level 43
Black Betty: level 44
Devastation Beetle: level 38
Bebilith: level 38
Ettercap: level 24
Krenshar: level 40
Hell Beast: level 40
Numerous Arena wins to similar level challengers (and some losses)
Highest single damage recorded from a single blow: 250 points.
For normal hunting, I prefer a custom made Greataxe over the Dark Ritual, but sometimes the extra +2 AB that the Dark Ritual offers is needed.
I forgot to mention that Shark Bait's Dev Crit DC is 75 + 1d20 while fully buffed and raged.
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