There are other ways to do it. But if you’re tired of wandering about the mosquito wolfe killing trolls 200 exp, hunting for slaad tongues to sell for a pittance or wasting precious time looking in potted plants for spare change this might help. I’m going to keep spoilers to a minimum. I’ll say what/how but not where so you’ll still need to explore.
The basic idea is to use a caster to get gold, blue bolt this gold to your other toons, and use the uber equipment to own the 800exp areas.
You need a good build to start with. A con based S29/PM10/R1 is solid all around. If you’re not sure what spells you’ll want you can change it to a wizard and have a little more flexibility. Shade is a good Subrace.
Take this build down to the dozo ruins and start killing rats with burning hands. You’re going to want to stay down there until you’re level 8. It won’t take long. You don’t really need to upgrade any gear yet since you’ll want 12K gold for a hasted cloak at level 9. This will get boring but it’s quick. If you get good at aiming you’ll be killing 7-9 spawns with ha single spell at 87 exp each. By the end. That’s not too shabby. You’ll want to use ghostly visage as your only defense. It’s all you need.
Now go to the smoke shack as quickly as you can. Please be careful to kill your spawns or Q will be displeased. Under no circumstances should you turn invisible and run through. The exp is low and it’s tempting to just bypass these areas but it’s against the rules so don’t do it. Going through this area the right way will net you one level.
Once you have a haste cloak your lvl 9 caster can grind out bugbears / slaad / harpy for exp. You’re going to want to get to lvl 11 as fast as you can. I like the harpy/hags for the exp. Your spells will make you immune to mind attacks so you’ll have a nice advantage. This is actually the first slowdown for your build.
When you are level 11 you can go to the UD and put +5AC to your Robes, Belt, Boots, Amulet and +12 to your Chr/Int. You won’t have this much money but that’s what you’re building towards.
When you can cast Undeath to Death go and hunt vampires. Invisibility is a nice defense if needed. Rest often and level very very quickly. Stay here even when the exp drops off. The UtD kills them so fast it’s insane.
When you can cast Bigby’s forceful hand you can kill the royal assassin and get your first boss drop. Farm him and Stride for their drops until you have enough gold to max out your gear. This should get your to lvl 18 or so. Now it’s time for the Drow. Invisibility, Wail, and IGM will help you lvl quickly with 800 exp a kill. If you don’t have max gear get back to the boss farm. Unless you have more than three MOBS on you your best damage spell will almost always be IGM. Don’t waste time looking for gold in plants or chests. It’s quicker just to farm.
When drow start to drop off in exp you want max your fort save and hunt azers. You might die once or twice on a bad save but it’ll still work out in the long run. Than make your way up the mountain and kill spiders and frost giants. If you started with a non-caster the giants are where your money troubles end.
Once you have 10 levels of PM you can kill the weapon master. (how should be obvious). Your money troubles are now completely over. Build up a nice bank of gold to transfer to your other toons.
Your next build can have Haste, +20AC and +5 to their weapon, and +12 to their main attribute at lvl 11. With this equipment advantage you’ll be able to level well ahead of your ‘proper’ level.
As a side note, the dev shield is well worth still spell, auto-still spell 1-3, and shield proficiency for your caster toon.
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A well written guide. A walkthrough every new player should read before adventuring in these bad lands.. Most new players often feel more confortable playing with melee builds in the beginning.. However, with this guide, things can be easier now.
Overall, not bad advice. However, if you make a Con based Sorcerer with 10 levels of Pale Master, expect to be ridiculed mercilessly. If that confuses you, go to this link: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Pale_master and look in the “Notes” section at the bottom, specifically the 4th one down. Sorcerers don’t get half as much from levels of Pale Master as a Wizard does. If you want to make a good Sorcerer, start with 1 level of Paladin, then take 38 levels of Sorcerer and end with a level of Monk for the good skills and AC boost (assuming you’re not wearing armor and a shield).
I definitely agree with Garble about the Azers. I think that area is greatly underappreciated for the same reason that the Dozo Ruins are. People have this mentality that once they stop getting “Max Xp per kill” they should move to another area, even though the Xp they’re getting in the first area is still easier, faster and safer than the next area. The thing to remember about the Azers is that there are 3 monsters per spawn. So if you are getting Max Xp and you don’t have any Xp penalties you’re getting 2400 xp per spawn as opposed to 1600 from another area. The question is how far can the Azer xp drop before it’s WORSE than the xp you’re getting from another area? You can be getting 550 xp/kill and you’re still getting more xp than if you were getting 800/kill in another area, not to mention that at that point it’s super fast, easy, and you’re getting hammers from the Azers worth 4500 gold each.
The Dozo Ruins are even better. I stay in the Dozo Ruins until AT LEAST level 8, usually to level 9. At level 8 with an ECL 2 xp penalty, you’ll only be getting 65 xp/kill. But you’re killing 5 monsters per spawn, so the total xp/spawn is 325. What areas are as FAST and EASY to xp in where you’re getting 325 xp/spawn at that level? I’ll give you a hint: unless you’re a very well built Strength build (and at level 8, how good could you really be?) there isn’t one.
Pale Master Mages with tons of HP (Con Based) are the ULTIMATE money makers in Badlands, and if you’re going to make a build to fund your future builds with, then I couldn’t agree more that this is the one you want. But if you want to see just how fast you can level in Badlands, make a Human Cleric with at least 16 Wisdom and 16 Dex. You could push either of those to 18 but you’ll really hurt your other stats. Get Plant and Trickery as your Domains, and when you spawn become a Githzeria. Get as much Charisma on your items as possible. Yes, I said Charisma, then head to the Dozo Ruins. Kill a few rats and undead and you’ll be at level 5 in no time. Once you’re at level 5, your “Turn Undead” will kill all the undead around you instantly. You got Charisma because that determines how many times you can use “Turn Undead” before you have to rest. Now you’ll start to really level fast. Stay there until you get to level 9 and then go to the smoke shack and get Haste. Go to the Underdark, get +4 AC on all your stuff and then go back to the Newport Sewers. The Vampires wont be able to touch you and with your buffs you should be able to kill the easily (kill the mages first). When you get to level 15 (all Cleric levels), upgrade all your stuff in the Underdark and go to the Drow Stronghold. You will be amazed at how fast and easy they die. Get a level of Monk at 16 and be amazed at how much FASTER they die. Get 5 levels of Shadow Dancer from 17 to 21 and then go max out your equipment. From here on out it’s Monk all the way to level 40. Go to the Azers area until around level 28, then go to Sheelo Mountain and kill spiders and Formians. When you get to level 33 or so you’ll start to slow down, but grind it out until you feel safe going to the Desert Mines. You can stay there until level 50 before the Xp starts to drop, and if you got any Improved Spell Resistance feats, you should be able to Xp in the Doom Mines with no difficulties. Ta Da, you have a Monk/Cleric/SD at level 58. Congrats.
Nices, still I feel that a CON based sorc is better off without pm. There's TONS of bosses that can be used for farming easily other than the drow and a CON based sorc can end up with over 60 fort so you don't need pm against dev's all that much. The weapon master is one of the very few that can actually dev you with his 75 dc. Imo, you don't need it for a sorc cause you get very high fort and you'll end up with a better pvp char since the extra ac pm's also get isn't what a CON based char should focus on.
I agree with 99% of what Deurack said above.
Only thing I'd change, is the pre-epic split.
You've got Cl15/SD4/Mk1 for lvls 1-20. By swapping Mk1 for a 16th lvl of Cleric, you can pick up an extra BAB point. Or, you could go Cl12/mk4/sd4 to get BAB 15. Another variation would be Cl16/mk4 and just save the SD levels for epic.
BTW, Deurack outlines the overall most powerful build in the Badlands. Anyone with a handful of toons wanting to partake in PvP should have one of these guys in the arsenal (or know someone who has one). Even prepubescent jizz-rags like Dano can effectively play this build. But you CAN screw it up, so be careful. For example, I saw someone running around with a Cl14/SD10/Mk16 before the crash. There are so many things wrong with that split that I can't begin to describe. (Almost as atrocious as Wiz37/PM3!!!)
This is an excellent topic, post and so far, follow up posts. I want to touch on a one thing that has been said though.
Garble says, "Please be careful to kill your spawns or Q will be displeased. Under no circumstances should you turn invisible and run through." followed by his own contradiction which Deurack reinforces. "When you are level 11 you can go to the UD and ....."How are you going to get to UD at level 11 without turning invisible and running past all your spawns?
Uh-Oh!!! Someone got caught CHEATING on the Badlands! BAN HIM, Q, BAN HIM!!! Crucify him, crucify him! Barabbas, Give us Barabbas!!!
Pyro: "The weapon master is one of the very few that can actually dev you with his 75 dc." ??? I'm not sure what you mean by that. The Weapon Master class has nothing in it that raises a Dev DC, the difficulty class of the save is 10 + ½ character level + strength modifier.
Jim: "You've got Cl15/SD4/Mk1 for lvls 1-20. By swapping Mk1 for a 16th lvl of Cleric, you can pick up an extra BAB point. Or, you could go Cl12/mk4/sd4 to get BAB 15. Another variation would be Cl16/mk4 and just save the SD levels for epic." Dude, no disrespect, but WTF??? The classic build calls for 15 levels of Cleric and 20 Levels of Monk. The only different split I've seen is to have LESS levels of Cleric to have MORE levels of Monk for better AC and speed. Getting 16 levels of Cleric might get you +1 AB overall, but you then either have to get 19 levels of Monk or 4 levels of Shadow Dancer. Either way, the build is kinda hosed.
Ohhhh, Pyro was talking about the DROW weapon master...got it. (Durr)
In a post by Deurack, he brings up a good point about Turn Undead and Charisma. I was going to post a comment here, but when it got to big, I decided it would be best to start a new thread.
The Wise Cleric's Guide
Q
Well, first of all NOWHERE on the list of server rules does it say ANYTHING about killing your spawns. If you want that to be a rule that people follow, you should update the list of rules. Enforcing a rule that is not clearly outlined and universally understood is just chaos.
Second, in a conversation with you about 6 months ago about the spawn issue I asked you what your exact problem with it was, and you said that the problem is high level people running through areas and “mega-spawning” multiple monsters. I asked you if it was an issue of the extra monsters creating server lag or of them possibly killing lowbies that came into the area, and you said that it was not an issue of lag, that if someone spawns lots of monsters that then kill a lowbie that isn’t prepared to handle that many creatures at once, that’s basically a different way of PK’ing called “Spawn Killing”. You then said that it was different for a low level character to “be heroic” (your specific words) and run through a level higher than he was ready for, because that would not spawn multiple monsters. If a character were to come into that area later, they would find the same amount of monsters waiting for them as they would normally spawn, if not less.
The above items taken into consideration, I see no problem with a level 11 running through the Newport Sewers and are with the Gelatinous Cubes to get to the Underdark. Again, if you want people to NOT do something, it should be listed in the official rules of the server. Otherwise it’s entirely possible that someone could come into the server, break a “rule” and get punished for doing something that they didn’t know was “wrong.”
Dureak is sort of wrong. If the build has 20 levels of caster there’s no advantage to being wizard based. So pick sorcerer since you get more spells per rest. The exalted sorcerer build is an awesome build but it’s not as good at boss farming. IMHO.
Q,
I meant the player not the toon. You take your boss farmer down to the UD and buy your melee build some decent stuff. Once you have the +5 AC gear you can upgrade your rings, belt etc. in Newport, or just keep shopping with the Farmer. But you’re right it’s not clearly worded so my meaning was garbled.
Garble: "You need a good build to start with. A con based S29/PM10/R1 is solid all around."
That's what I was talking about. The 29/10/1 build is MUCH better as a Wizard than a Sorcerer. The Pale Master levels give a Wizard the same spells/day as if they had taken a level in Wizard instead of PM, but that's not true for the Sorcerer. I'm not recommending the first "Money Maker" build be the Exhaulted Sorcerer, I'm suggesting that if you're going to make a Mage build with ANY levels of Pale Master, you're better off going Wizard.
I finally have a well thought out. And it's full of water. Response to something that was stated earlier in this discussion.
Garble said, "Please be careful to kill your spawns or Q will be displeased. Under no circumstances should you turn invisible and run through."
Followed by his own contradiction, "When you are level 11 you can go to the UD and ....."
Which Deurack reinforces with, "Stay there until you get to level 9 and then go to the smoke shack and get Haste. Go to the Underdark, get +4 AC on all your stuff and then go back to the Newport Sewers."
Then I said, "How are you going to get to UD at level 11 without turning invisible and running past all your spawns?"
Jim Brannick said, "Uh-Oh!!! Someone got caught CHEATING on the Badlands!"
Then Deurack said, "Well, first of all NOWHERE on the list of server rules does it say ANYTHING about killing your spawns."
Deurack also quoted something I said a long time ago in-game, word for word. (It's to much to reprint here, but good reading. Scroll up to his post and come back here.)
And finally Garble clears up what he actually meant to say.
So, now, let me start out by saying that all I was saying was "Garble had contradicted himself." That's it.
But, there is plenty of room here for thought and chatter or even a healthy argument.
I desperately frown on "spawn killing", which I define as, "A high level toon that turns invisible and goes into low level areas strictly for the purpose of watching noobs die."
The other thing that I frown on is a high level toon that runs through ANY area on a boss hunt leaving a wake of spawns behind.
Both yield the same results. Players dieing by the actions of high level toons without any defenses.
I can't count the times I've stepped out of Northbound with my level 25 to find six hungry polar bears. One bear, I can bearly handle. Two, not even on a good day. Six? I could die 12 times and most would still be there and still be hungry. In my selfish mind, that shit just ain't cool!
About a low-level running (and I mean out-running a monster) through a high level area.
- Or a low level that can sneak and crawl through.
- Or a low level that can turn invisible and walk through.
*** That's part of the game. And, there probably won't be sooo many monsters that the expected players will have a real problem.
What really yanks my chain is when this "spawn killer" is a lawful good Paladin. You know, the 'police' of the realm. The guy that, in RPG terms, will help you not harm you, no matter what the personal sacrifice. The character that is supposed to hunt down 'PKers' and 'spawn killers', not be one.
So, anyway, I just had this thought. Yes I know, you smell something burning... Ha Ha, I just farted.
Maybe I could make a quest for certain areas. You clear the area by killing a certain number of monsters and an Area Boss, then go see an NPC who can set it so you don't create spawns as you walk through that area.
Like this:
The Mayor of Newport asks you to clear out the sewers because they're over run with Vampires and clogging up the drainage and the workers can't get to the clog.
You walk around looking for the clog while killing Vamps. Finally you find the source of the problem but near it is this big ugly thing that you need to kill.
Eventually you go back to town and the Mayor rewards you with gold, XP, and more importantly, a key that unlocks the lower gate so you can continue on deeper to the Underdark.
The Mayor does the actual reward bit that allows you to not create spawns as you pass through the area that you cleared. But, there might be other players creating spawns as they try to do the same quest you just finished. Now you can pass through the sewers (not the tunnel of jello) with no worries.
Does that sound like a winner? A real DND / RPG adventure without "ruining BadLands"?
Somewhere in the mega-thread above, Deurack said,
"Jim: "You've got Cl15/SD4/Mk1 for lvls 1-20. By swapping Mk1 for a 16th lvl of Cleric, you can pick up an extra BAB point. Or, you could go Cl12/mk4/sd4 to get BAB 15. Another variation would be Cl16/mk4 and just save the SD levels for epic." Dude, no disrespect, but WTF??? The classic build calls for 15 levels of Cleric and 20 Levels of Monk."Good catch there Deurack. I was trying to point out that one should make every effort to follow the "rule of 4" pre-epic, so as to maximize BAB. Although the Cl16/Mk4 I mentioned didn't mesh with the 'classic' mk/cl/sd build (my mistake) it did prove my point. I think what I meant to say was: Cl12/Mk8 (and saving SD for epic) was another option to hit BAB 15.
This 'rule of 4' is something I always try to follow. Another example is the classic Bard/RDD/PM builds I see running around. I saw someone recently with Bard5/RDD10/PM5 at lvl 20. The BAB of that split figures to 12. By rushing the prestige classes, that dude totally F'd up that build. A better split would be Bard12/RDD8... which nabs a BAB of 15.
In response to Q's last comment on scripting some way (i.e., quest, etc.) that would prevent your toon from triggering spawns:
Q, I don't agree with you very often, but that is a FANTASTIC idea. I remember from table gaming back in the "day" when there were things called Morale checks. When your 15th level raging barbarian stumbled into a goblin encampment, the goblins made a roll, and if failed, would run away faster than King Arthur in Monty Python's classic.
There are certain times when Uber toons need to skirt around the north face or other areas. A 50th level PC should cause all the formians to crawl into their icy crevasses and wait for that toon to pass by. So, by using the rationale that most monsters won't tangle with someone when their own death is assured, I think it'd be a good idea to place triggers around that prevent mega-spawning if a PC is XX levels above that areas critters. This would prevent most "spawn-killing" that happens, and it would also move PCs along to find new areas to farm (since xp would get extremely low beyond a certain pt).
The way I adjusted the XP engine (the XP from killing uglies) is, in short:
The base XP is 400 per kill.
+50 XP per each level above you.
-75 XP per each level below you.
Any XP below 25 becomes Zero and you get one Gold.
800 XP CAP.
That's before any ECL and Multi-class penalties. There is some randomness to it, but that's the rule of thumb.
If the kill pays 800 XP, ECL 2 (20%) drops it to 640 XP. Multi-class can be as high as 20%, dropping it again to 512.
I've heard some noobs complain that 512 isn't enough (meanwhile there level 10 is still in Dozo Warfields). Most true RPG servers pay about 25 XP. (The real XP is earned by completing quests.) Even at 512, 640 or 800, it's one long road to level 60.
Jim Brannick said... In response to Q's last comment on scripting some way (i.e., quest, etc.) that would prevent your toon from triggering spawns:
Q, I don't agree with you very often, but that is a FANTASTIC idea. I remember from table gaming back in the "day" when there were things called Morale checks. When your 15th level raging barbarian stumbled into a goblin encampment, the goblins made a roll, and if failed, would run away faster than King Arthur in Monty Python's classic.Yeah, I remember the morale checks too. NWN doesn't use those :(
The encounter trigger that NWN provided is all hard coded and if it can be modified in any way, I don't know how.
That's why I build my own Monster Trigger System. Mostly for the over 40 crowd, but it can be used for any level and I have full control over it.
We use it exclusively in all of the Sheelo Mountain Range, the Forgotten Coast & Lands, almost every area over 40.
Doing a "morale" check, a "quest completion" check, or a "level" check would be real easy to add. It would be easier and safer to just not allow them to spawn, giving the player near free passage, leaving them to do more important stuff than kill hungry polar bears for 25 XP.
Q, I gotta agree with Jim, your idea of doing a quest to not spawn monsters in a certain area is pure genius. PLEASE get that done as quickly as possible, that would be awesome!
When you're hot, you're hot.
And when you not you're snot.
Excellent idea.
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