Thursday, May 28, 2009

Confessions of a Noob

One more time I've tried to recreate my original NWN character. This time I might actually have a toon that's playable on BadLands RPG. This has caused me to reflect back on my noobness and how much I've learned over the years.

Qwildurn Bluemoon was my only character to complete the Neverwinter Nights campaign. After I finished the campaign, I started exploring online game worlds. Eventually I found BadLands (the original) and instantly knew I was home. Everything was just right, until I got killed by another player.

Qwildurn was, and therefore, always will be, an Elf. I'm not really sure why she is an Elf, but, this is role-play so I wanted to be something other than what my real life normally is. Since I am a male Human of average everything, my DND persona needed to be anything but....

I picked a Ranger/Bard mix. I actually had a neat write-up in my Bio about my parents being murdered and my search for revenge. Ranger and Bard were new classes for me and I thought that Ranger would give me access to all the divine spells similar to a Cleric. The dual-wield held it's attractions as well as the hide and search/spot abilities.

I had similar fantasies with Bard as well. Although a bit more realistic here, the end results were just as misconceived. I had thought that Bard would get me into all the arcane spells as if I was a true Mage with some good Rogue skills to boot.

The NWN manual talked about multi-class penalties but didn't say one word about Base Attack Penalties. To avoid the XP penalty, I kept my two classes equal.

I don't remember my attribute stats now, but they were probably 14's and 12's with a few 13's. Let's face it, this build needs every attribute in the book.
  • Charisma for Bard spells.

  • Wisdom for Ranger spells.

  • Constitution so I can absorb some abuse.

  • Strength so I can hit my enemy and do some damage.

  • Dexterity so I can dodge attacks.

  • Intelligence so I can solve life's problems as they come my way. Lets face it, DND is about solving problems so this is pretty important.

I went with a Katana and Kukri. I wanted the 1d10 base damage of the Katana and the critical threat range of the Kukri. The manual did talk about a small two-weapon penalty and suggested a Longsword / Shortsword combo.

I went with padded or leather armor because of the arcane spell casting failure as well as Rangers loosing their dual-wield functions with medium/heavy armor.

To do anything useful in the NWN campaign you need at least 5 skill points in every area. Certain NPC's just won't offer you quests without some otherwise useless skills. Since my Intelligence was somewhat low, I didn't have many points to spread around at level-up.

In game-play, I never found a Katana or Kukri worth using and usually used other weapons I wasn't trained in. I did the quest to improve my leather armor and it got turned into full plate that I couldn't wear because I didn't have that feat. I had to back-up to a saved game just get my nice leather back. GRRRR I finally got pissed enough about the whole deal that I used the editor to add some comparable weapons and armor similar to the stuff I had found but couldn't use.

When I saw Deekin get his red wings, I said, "OOOO I want some too!" I found that I had everything needed and started a third class immediately. Although all I really wanted was the cute red wings, the boost in strength and other stuff really helped my failing toon. If it wasn't for Daleon, I never would have made it very far.

When I finished the NWN campaign, I was around level 30. I had my cute red wings and could breath fire (the kind that can't do any damage). All three of my classes were equal and I really couldn't do much, I wasn't much better than a level 10 character in a level 30 world.


------------


Recreating this Qwildurn Bluemoon was not my first online toon, nor my first BadLands build. Maybe my third BadLands build. By this time I had learned a few more things about building characters.
  • I had learned to skip certain skills and pump certain skills.

  • But I still made the same basic mistakes as I had in the campaign.
I have re-made this basic build with more Ranger, less Ranger, more dex less str, more str less dex.... ect. ect. But always with the same basic results. Basic crap and something to be ashamed of.

--------

Recently, I decided to try it again. In concept, it just seems like a good platform, so, what did I do wrong and what should I change? I'm locked into the Elf, Ranger, Bard, RDD thing. After all, this is Qwildurn Bluemoon.

So, what else can I adjust or change?
  • I picked the Dargonesti Elf subrace that had not been available before. This gave me a boost in key attributes: Str +4, Con +2, and Int -2.

  • I picked a higher Base Attack over multi-class penalty. So what if I level slower, at least I can level.

  • It seemed I had gotten more out of the Bard Spells than anything else, so I went with a lot of Bard levels.

  • To maximize my BAB (Base Attack Bonus) I took 8 Ranger, 8 RDD, 4 Bard in the first 20 levels.

  • I started Red Dragon Disciple as soon as possible to gain the added ability and AC boosts.

  • I took only 9 Ranger levels. Ranger 9 is when you get the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Feat. Ranger 10 would give me a third spell level, but nothing that would be beneficial.

  • I finished my tenth RDD levels as soon as I could to get my wings. - LOL. - Actually, this time what I really wanted was the Int boost so I could get more skills.
  • This leaves 21 Bard levels. High level Bard spells ROCK.

  • To maximize the Bard Song / Curse Song, 55 Perform Skills (adjusted) are needed at Bard 21. I got 5 skills from my helm and 28 from my Charisma Bonus. The rest I had to take at level up.

  • This time I took 25 UMD (Use Magic Device) Skills instead of 5. This allows me to use any scroll I find or buy without chance of failure, and, I should be able to wear or hold any item I find. My Charisma bonus adds to this for an adjusted UDM of over 30.

  • The user manual does not say that for every 5 tumble skill you take at level-up, your AC will increase by +1. Forty points in this skill can raise your AC +8 by level 37.

  • Skill Concentration can't be scrimped if you want to do any casting during combat, so I maximized this skill.

  • The feat: Extend Spell is a must. Then I extend only the spells that don't last "one hour per level". The hour spells will still out last the extended spells, but, at Bard 21 this is a nice long time.

  • I took 16 Dex at birth and wear cloth armor. The +12 dex we can buy later allows my AC to be one point higher than Full Plate.

  • I didn't waste my feats on two types of weapons. I went with a small weapon to avoid a big AB penalty. (I still get a small AB penalty).

  • I chose the Hand Axe. It's a 1d6 base and has x3 critical damage.

  • I did a coin-toss for Epic Feat: Devastation Critical. With my small crit range (18-20), it hardly seemed worth it. The coin said to take Dev Crit, so I did. I am getting enough Dev Kills that I'm glad my coin was smarter than me. Using two weapons increases my chance to hit on a Dev.
I was able to level-up alone fairly easy at BadLands RPG. At times I could get my max XP of 512 easy, at other times I was forced to play down in an easier area. "Tank" I am not, "Party Support" would be more accurate. My Curse Song hurts the enemy as much as Bard Song helps the party. Some say the a +3 AB boost is not enough. I say the -5 AC to the enemy combined with my +3 AB is the equivalent of 8. Anybody want to complain about a difference of 8? Some would call it 16, as our AC goes up 5 their AC goes down 5. Our AB goes up 3, theirs goes down 3. Call it what you will, the difference really shows in close combat.

At level 40, my AC was around 60. Not exactly high compared to a good Monk with 90 AC. But when you figure in the Bard spells that cover damage reduction and specific types of protection that does not get reflected as RAW AC, I am pretty hard to hit and hurt.

Currently I am level 43 and my stats are:
Ha Ha
I took a break from writing and went up 3 more levels.

Stats at level 46:
naked unbuffeddressed unbuffeddressed buffed
HP474714751
AC275864
AB404758(6 attacks per round, 4 main, 2 off hand)

Damage 1d6+6+19+19(main hand)
BAB27
SR45
Str374949
Dex142626
Con162828
Int142020
Wis121414
Cha162828

(edited to reflect correctness about certain statements)

20 comments:

Unknown said...

My first toon here was a half-drow Sorc/RDD. I remember it quite well but for some reason it actually worked, goes to show how hard it is to actually fuck up a mage.
Now I've actually made almost the same toon again, but as a Sorc/Rdd/Pally and it's actually pretty damn effective. I've only made it for the purpose of being capable of facing the drow wm's devs without pm lvls, but aside from that it's pretty tough too.

extomorf said...

Doesn't UMD go on charisma not intelligence?

Qwildurn said...

extomorf said... Doesn't UMD go on charisma not intelligence?

I'll do a scientific experiment later. Logically, intelligence would be the deciding factor, but who said DND was logical?

Simon Hawk said...

A successful use magic device check allows a character to use a magic item as if your character had the required class, race, or alignment.

Ability: Charisma
Classes: Bard, Rogue, Assassin
Cross-Class: No
Requires Training: Yes
Check: The base difficulty class (DC) of this task is determined by the value of the item, and modified by the type of emulation the character is attempting. If the character attempts to emulate a specific race, the DC increases by 5; if he attempts to emulate a specific alignment, the DC increases by 10. Emulating a specific class does not modify the base DC. You must make a DC check of 25 + the level of the spell to cast a spell from a scroll if the difficulty mode of the game is set to Hardcore or higher.
Use: Automatically applied whenever a character attempts to use or equip an item normally unusable by his class, race, or alignment.
edit NotesThe special check for using a scroll at hardcore difficulty or higher does not apply to scrolls with no class limitations, to characters with at least one bard, sorcerer, or wizard level, nor to characters who have the spell in question prepared (ready to cast). It does apply to all other characters who have at least one rank in UMD, even if that character has a class that is allowed to use the scroll normally.
The 2da skillvsitemcost.2da lists the DCs for different item values:

Qwildurn said...

Qwildurn said... I'll do a scientific experiment later.

Simon made a very informed post that confirms charisma controls UMD skill. I decided to do my scientific experiment anyway and the results are that Charisma, not Intelligence does indeed control UMD. Each one bonus point will adjust your UMD skill one point.

I will edit the original topic to reflect this.

Qwildurn said...

The UMD check for non-scrolls is ultimately a gold value check. Whether your trying to use a scroll or a sword, a 1d20 roll is added in. Buying 25 UMD skills at level-up will almost always guarantee that you will never fail. One of my toons had to buy 5 more to use the "wrong alignment" Gold Dragon Armor.

Deurack said...

Yeah, your build probably could have kicked my first builds ass. The build I beat NWN with was named Deurack (go figure) and was a Fighter/Cleric/Wizard. Doesn't sound TOO horrible, right? Well, I only had 1 level of Wizard, and only because I thought having a Familiar was cool. I kept my Fighter and Cleric levels about the same, and I only used my Cleric spells to heal myself. I never even paid any attention to the buffs. I was primarily a Dex build that wore heavy armor dual wielded rapiers...until I found this SWEET +4 Halberd and started using that...with my 12 Str and 16 Dex...Like Q said, if it weren't for Linu I probably wouldn’t have been able to beat the campaign mode. (BTW, if anyone is tempted to go back and beat the campaign mode again, Linu is BY FAR the best mage in the game, she uses "Harm" on everything. I killed Klauth in 1 hit because of her :)

So I came to Badlands RPG and re-made Deurack and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t kill anything past the first 3 starting areas. I started looking at the class descriptions and feats and figured a few things out but it was slow going. I had a level 17 Cleric/ 17 Monk that couldn’t hit the Ice Spiders before I figured out that BUFFING IS A GOOD THING. I had multiple build conversations with Q about that toon and eventually, after I think 4 different tries, I finally got it right. That was Sidian Saine, and that's why his Bio says something about him being like a Phoenix being reborn from the ashes again and again, because I have remade that toon about 7 or 8 times including all the server wipes and crappy toons I deleted.

Deurack said...

BTW, if you’re looking for some build help for Qwildurn Bluemoon, I would have done 10 Ranger/10 RDD/ 20 Bard. 10th level Ranger gets you another spell but more importantly to me is another favored enemy. In a server that can get PvP crazy, having another set of enemies that you can hit easier and do more damage to would be a good thing. That also gives you an additional +1 to BAB for a total of 27 at level 40. I would get Ranger from 1-10, Bard from 11-20, RDD from 21-30, and then Bard from 31-40. It’s possible to get RDD faster, say 10 Ranger, 1 Bard, 10 RDD, 19 Bard, but that would drop your BAB by 1 and only give you 9 more skill points by level 40.

If you’re locked into an Elf then I think that Dargonesti is definitely the way to go, even though the -2 to Int isn’t something I’m crazy about. I would make my starting stat look like this:
Before Dargonesti Subrace:
Str – 16
Dex – 14
Con – 8
Wis – 12
Int – 14
Cha – 12
After Dargonestin Subrace:
Str – 20
Dex – 16
Con – 8
Wis – 12
Int – 12
Cha – 12

While I would like the Int, Con and Str to be higher, you’ll want 16 Dex to be able to get Imp 2 Weapon Fighting and to help out with AC. 12 Cha at character creation will give you 14 at level 40 due to the +2 from RDD. While Q said that high level Bard spells are awesome, I’m not impressed with them. The only spells worth casting are Greater Dispelling and Dirge. Dirge has a saving throw, so it’s worthless on Badlands and you usually won’t have the caster levels to make “Greater Dispelling” work well for you. Curse Song combined with Taunt is far more effective anyway. In my opinion (for what that’s worth) the best Bard spells are from 1-4, and since you wont be wearing heavy armor or a shield you don’t need to worry about getting 15 Charisma so you can cast your 4th level spells “Stilled”.

I would get Humans, Half Orcs and Elves as favored enemies, since those are the base races you’ll probably find yourself fighting the most in PvP. You said that you went with Hand Axes as your weapon because of the X3 on the crits. While I’m a fan of the Hand Axe for the exact same reason, if you’re going to make a Dev Crit build that dual wields, Kukri’s are the only way to go for the massive Crit range. Someone might argue that they do less damage, but not when you get Mysteria. Until a “Boss Drop” Hand Axe gets added to the server, Mysteria does more damage than any other 1 handed weapon except maybe the Widow Maker, and that’s debatable. 2 Hand Axes might do more damage if you had 7 levels of Weapon Master, but on this build I would Definitely use Mysteria.

Qwildurn said...

Deurack said... BTW, if you’re looking for some build help for Qwildurn Bluemoon, I would have done 10 Ranger/10 RDD/ 20 Bard. 10th level Ranger gets you another spell but more importantly to me is another favored enemy.


I was not looking for help. The title is "Confessions" and I was hoping others would talk about their early mistakes as well. Some of us are good at busting on the mentally challenged to make self look better. If we can't laugh at ourself, who are we to laugh at others?

I think I explained Qwildurn Bluemoon and this is a re-creation. The original was an Elf, Bard, Ranger, RDD. To change these would be to change the build and require a different name.

If I was interest in Favored Enemies I would take 21 or more Ranger levels to get Bane and seven favorites to cover all seven player bases.

Ranger gets improved two-weapon fighting for free at Ranger 9, no matter what the dex is. I took 16 dex so I could wear cloth without an AC loss.

I did get 27 BAB at level 40.

Maybe there is room for improvement, but I'm happy with what I got at this point.

extomorf said...

My 1st toon was a fighter/sorc/rdd and he didn't do to well as he had a great sword and i only took 1 lvl of sorc and didn't save any skill points for spell craft. he did have well over 800 hp at lvl 40tho.

ps is the server down for maintence if so for how long. or has it died again?

Deimonos said...

My first toon here was a wis based pure druid. Hmm, maybe not.. I think I had spreaded the points between str and wis.
I could barely hit anything and I only used heal and harm. And sometimes Flame Strike and that acid one...

So I learned a bit about clerics and went all "Wow, they are cool. They can heal and ressurect others!" because at that time, it was common to group with other players, since Badlands had like 20 or more players and it was easy to find others around your level.

So I stopped at lvl 34 or so and got all cleric lvls.. and then I spent a long time killing formians with sephka til we were 41 (of course, our builds could never bash trogs..). When I got my 41st lvl I was happy. I used the legendary leveler and...
of course.. only hp and skill points.

So I end up with a lvl 40 druid 34/ cleric 6 that couldn't rez anyone or use greater restoration.
I was pissed off.. I had no idea legendary lvls didn't actually add a new class level to your toon.

I remember trying to explain that to DM Glub and he just told me "Yeah, it doesn't add levels to your chosen classes. Sorry."

Damn.. after so many hours spent on that build and it was mess up.
I tried to go on but I was disappointed.
Til I heard from Sephka himself that he'd gotten a relevel.
How cool was that? I could fix my build and use all those fancy cleric spells!!! Yay!!

So I went to talk with the DM. I explained it was my first toon and that I had no idea I wouldn't get class lvls..
He said he couldn't relevel my toon because it was already at legendary levels and left...........

I was so pissed off that I started bashing every npc in dozo til every single one of them was near death.

Then I took a break.. and after some time I came back with a weird sorc/aa something.. also grouping with sephka, who basically carried me around with his melee builds til he learned to play a mage and his egomaniac days began..

Oh.. good times...

Qwildurn said...

Now those are some embaracing stories! I don't know how missed Deurack's good post.

The housekeeper unpluged the router to plug in the vacuum .... Grrr ... So now we're all clean.

But my laptop won't turn on now. I am litteraly laying on the floor to use the server to type this.
I AM NOT HAPPY

Simon Hawk said...

I made "Rana Ellow". A 40th level fighter using only the recommended button, I managed to beat the game with that toon thanks to numerous heal potions, but it was quite the disaster on BLRPG.

I have re-made that toon, it's pretty good now. lol

Troll Snott said...

I was never a NOOB. I was born knowing everything I needed to know. I'm special.

Simon Hawk said...

Yeah, "special ed".

Jim Brannick said...

My first BL build was a straight split cleric/fighter named Tyrion Lannister. I was Str-based and I made it into the 20's easily enough, but then things really slowed down. Luckily Sephka had his Gandolf toon and gave me a shitload of gp and told me what to put attribute pts in. I didn't know anything about "builds" when I started BL, so everything I've had to study up on or learn from guys like Deim or Duerack. After about 18 months, I could sit down with a piece of scrap paper and flesh-out any build (and any subrace) without manuals. It's actually pretty pathetic- there's a huge chunk of my cerebrum that's chocked full of useless D&D and NWN knowledge.
My second BL build was a little better, his name was Vic Vega and he was a Monk/Fighter/SD- tough to hit, but mediocre AB. By my third build, I seemed to have figured out the BL even more. His name was Drake Vega (Bard/RDD/PM). This was when I learned the power of the bard class in NWN (I remember bards being borderline homos in old-school table gaming... although they did seem to score some tail when the party would stop at an Inn...). Drake Vega showed me that trogs are easy... if you're crit immune and you have dev crit. Prior to that build, I believed that trogs could only be farmed using a Mega-party with lots of Mage and cleric AoE spells.
By far, my "funnest" build was Gnimble the Gnomish Gnukemeister-- a mischievous chaotic neutral Wiz/SD/PM. Many a time did Gnimble dominate some powerful monster or boss, only to leave him where some unsuspecting Noob might come across it.

Terry17 said...

Regarding: Scroll Cast Checks.

I've done some testing and found a few things that may be of interest to y'all.

DC for casting scrolls:

EITHER

25 + scrolls innate level (26 to 34) for UMD.

OR

20 + scrolls innate level (21 to 29) for Spellcraft.

So if you have a 33 UMD skill or 28 Spellcraft skill, you can't fail a scroll cast check, because the lowest you can roll is a 1.

Added Note:
If you have 5 ranks or more in UMD you get a +2 synergy bonus to Spellcraft scroll cast checks. And if you have 5 ranks or more in Spellcraft you get a +2 synergy bonus on UMD scroll cast checks.

Helpful hints:

1) Don't forget about the +5 UMD and +5 Spellcraft helms. They are great for those builds on a Skill Point budget.

2) A very few scrolls can be used by any class. A couple are "Remove Disease", and "RAISE DEAD". So even a level 40 fighter with Cross Class skill in Spellcraft can cast them.

I hope this helps.

Simon Hawk said...

wtf is synergy? Is that even in the game?

Qwildurn said...

Simon Hawk said...
wtf is synergy? Is that even in the game?



Terry used it, so Terry should explain it, but, I have heard the term before and I sort of understand it as "system-energy".

Synergy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(quote)
Synergy (from the Greek syn-ergos, συνεργός meaning working together) is the term used to describe a situation where different entities cooperate advantageously for a final outcome. Simply defined, it means that the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts. Although the whole will be greater than each individual part, this is not the concept of synergy. If used in a business application it means that teamwork will produce an overall better result than if each person was working toward the same goal individually.
(end quote)

Synergy is not used by name in the NWN manual. It might be used in a DND manual, but I have not read all of the many DND manuals in their entirety.

Synergy is used in a user made script that has been added to BadLands as part of the UMD / spell check system. It states in the documentation that he included a SYNERGY check to do pretty much what Terry described.

When I modified this script, I used Synergy for the Bard's UMD scroll usage. The Bard has a naturally higher understanding of magic that Rogues and Assassins don't. I couldn't figure out how to do what I really wanted to do, so I chose an alternative. The end result is that level for level, a Bard's scroll casting power is better than a Rogue or Assassin.

If you ever noticed that a non-magic user can't use a potion bottle, that's because I did part of my check wrong. I will fix it.

Terry17 said...

As far as DnD is concerned a Synergy bonus is just another category of bonus, like Dodge and Natural is for AC.

If you read the description of Set Trap and Disarm Trap on the skill list of your character, they mention a Synergy Bonus and what it does. I was just informing you that there was a "Hidden" skill bonus there for UMD and Spellcraft, in case you wanted to use it.

As far as skill checks for scroll use, I thought that was just a toggle you could turn on or off for your campaign world. At least that is what I read on NWNWiki.

The casting level of the scroll or potion being tied to the characters casting ability or 2/3 of your Assassin/Rogue levels, I thought that was what the new script did. Since most melees don't have Casting Levels, and they are not Assassin or Rogue, they cast potions with level 0 ability, with 0 duration.

Example: level 40 Fighter uses a Negative Energy potion and it works. It actually protects him from Negative energy for 1 turn per caster level. Which is Zero turns. You can even see the graphics of the spell casting, and get a message saying you used the potion successfully.