I have said that many times before.
I can also be quoted as having said, "It's BadLands, not BadPlayers and not SoftLands."
This Topic is not to bust on anybody, but to ask a simple question:
What is "The Spirit of Dungeons and Dragons"?
Dungeons and Dragons started in the 70's as a board game with a setting of five players. One DM and four Characters. Everything changes with time and so has Dungeons and Dragons.
Now that Dungeons and Dragons has opened up to Multi-Player On-Line Gaming, how has this effected Dungeons and Dragons?
- Question One: What was that Spirit like before computerized gaming?
- Question Two: Has computerized gaming changed this Spirit and if so, Why?
- Question Three: What is the modern Spirit of Dungeons and Dragons
- Question Four: Why is this Spirit important?
Qwildurn - The know-it-all teacher that can't learn anything new because I already know it all.
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I won't publish my version of an answer for some time yet. And, NO, I don't hold the only correct answer.
nwn being my 1st (ever!) D&D based game i cannot answer any of those questions...
i do however really want to hear yours Q... would help me alot with future suggestions :P
The amnimosity of being behind the computer allows for the most obnoxious of players. Just look at how people behave when hiding behind the keyboard. When we used to play pen&paper games it was more personal and people usually didnt act like the mega-tools you run into so often these days. most antics where between friends in a group setting and hilarity ensued.
The good part about online gaming though is being able to connect with friends that have moved out of state ect. We can still get some of that old school hilarious gaming action. And even in a place as full of shit-nuggets as the internet, you can still find some decent hilarious players.
It was always for fun and laughs for me. And still is. Just ask Jim Brannick about DaleMont-HalfHand.
Question One: What was that Spirit like before computerized gaming? IIRC we'd sit about simon's GF's house drinking until I got drunk enough to think my plot idea was good. Than we'd play until the booze got heavy and drive home. I sort of recall that Jim wrote poetry and Simon bit my pant leg.
Question Two: Has computerized gaming changed this Spirit and if so, Why? Jim doesn't write poetry and Simon's dental hygene is a far less pressing concern. Oh, we don't have to drive anywhere when I get to drunk to game now. Also i went to high school with Simon. The guy that helped me kill the Dev bug tonight might have been from china for all I know. Based on his English that's a decent chance.
Question Three: What is the modern Spirit of Dungeons and DragonsQuestion
Kill shit to get stuff. Maybe do a quest or something.
Four: Why is this Spirit important?
You're over thinking it.
When you get like this the best thing you can do is have a nice lie down. When you get up have a stiff drink (drain sterno through a pocket cloth) and grief the players until you're having fun again.
Computers make this nice because a small script change can totally fuck with many many players. try lowering the BAB cap to +3, giving all the bosses acid immunity and 67SR, lowering the damage output on IGM to a max of 15D6, or only allowing one AOE spell to be in effect at a time.
If that doesn't work try randomly re-leveling PC's, or puting the boss drops in a chest with DC 70 traps and locks.
Fuck I'm cheery.
Simon when you wrote "amnimosity " did you mean Anonymity (the state of being unknown)or animosity (an antagonistic attitude?)
the rest of your comment works either way.
LoL Garble. I meant "Anonymity".
Yes, strange as it is, even I have been know to make a mistake now and then.
And I didnt bite your pant leg during any D&D game. That was during your S.I. game. My PC was a werewolf, and pissed. Wouldn't you have dont the same thing? LOL?
• Question One: What was that Spirit like before computerized gaming?
It was my experience that ‘table top D&D’ was a bunch of people meeting at a person’s house, ordering pizza, making jokes and wasting 4 of the 5 hours set aside for gaming, and then working together for the last hour to try to accomplish a goal while staying alive. It was generally understood that the DM was actively trying to kill us. This was understood because he told us so. The other way he would say it was “he was forcing us to be Heroic”. Anyway, the spirit that I remember from my days of playing ‘pen & paper D&D’ was one of cooperation. You were FORCED to cooperate with the others in the group, even if you didn’t like them or agree with their opinions on what should be done in a certain situation. This was true because the situations we were thrust into (being sucked into a vortex and deposited into another world, being attacked by hordes of ogres led by a 2 headed ogre mage, ect) DEMANDED that we cooperate or none of us would have survived. As it was, there was no guarantee that we would survive even if we DID work together. So, in a nut-shell, the spirit I remember was one of Adventure, Discussion of ideas, Cooperation and eventually a Compromise that would enable us to work together to accomplish our goals.
• Question Two: Has computerized gaming changed this Spirit and if so, Why?
I believe it has. While the original concepts of D&D might be translatable into a computer game, there is no changing the fact that almost all computer games are one person interacting with a program. Even on multi-player servers like Badlands, the majority of the time that a player spends is by themselves, Xp’ing and trying to become more powerful to make the best “build” that they can. (or at least that is my view of things. I could be wrong.) Computer games have trained us as gamers to “Beat The Game”. While there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ in that, it most certainly goes against (what I believe and remember to be) the spirit and founding ideals of D&D. While the original D&D was modeled off of the J.R.R. Tolkien books, which did have a final objective of destroying the ring and thereby ending the threat of Mordor, the game was designed to enable people to take part in that adventure, with no set ‘end’ in sight. There was no way to “Beat The Game”, because there really was no game, just a (potentially) never-ending series of adventures. Additionally, these adventures were designed to be a cooperative endeavor made by 4 different people playing vastly different types of characters, none of which could survive for long on their own, ensuring a collaborative gaming environment with cooperation and interaction between the players. With computer games, the vast majority of that collaboration and cooperation has been lost. What’s more, I don’t think there is any real way of injecting it into a server like Badlands. People simply do not view this game (Neverwinter Nights) or this server as a place in which to have that type of experience. The only way that I can see to create the type of “old school feel” that was found in the ‘pen & paper D&D’ would be to have a module that is actively run by a DM in which a set number of players are regularly meeting and progressing through the module together, which is basically what would happen in the old D&D, just with paper and pencil.
• Question Three: What is the modern Spirit of Dungeons and Dragons
I don’t think I’m qualified to answer that question, as I have not played D&D since 2002, and to be honest, the people I was playing with were all morons. I can speak to what I believe the current spirit of Badlands is:
1. Make a good build – This differs for everyone. Some people like “fun” builds, some want the build to be as powerful as possible.
2. Find cool people to interact with – Cool typically means people who think like you.
3. Get your build as powerful as you can – again, this will mean different things to different people, but I believe the underlying goal to be the same.
4. Fight other players – this could mean actively attacking other people, or defending against those that attack you or your friends.
• Question Four: Why is this Spirit important?
The “Spirit” of the game is going to determine how people view the game, their expectations of the game world, and how they will interact with both the game world and the other players in that world. I think that’s pretty self explanatory.
I know how often I washed my pants back then. There is no game on earth that would have made me put them in my own mouth. The fact that you had no problem with it has, and always will, made me laugh.
Cooperation and group play seems to come up a lot in this conversation. I'd like to point out that when I played every week with friends I had a shit job/was a student, and rarely had a date. I'm married now with two kids. I play when they're in bed, unless my wife and I want to you know, talk or interact or something. Or I need to get up early for work, which happens a lot lately. If I'm going to play I usually know at the last minute and don't stay on for very long. The days of 7pm=2am games every week are long gone.
Back than I could very easily talk to the other players. On NwN you can use teamspeak. But it adds another level of scheduling complexity. Other than that communication is slow and ineffective.
If my PnP group wanted to fight frost giants they'd tell me and I'd started the session with "you're walking across a mountain pass..." (in theory, my PC's were rarely of a level to fight frost giants. Because it took months to get to level Nine. With a caster I can make level nine in a couple of hours.
Common sense is impossible to make into an algorithm. Why do the drow in the BL just stand there until I'm in sight? Why are drow mages useless? Because it's a computer game. The computer doesn't use strategy, and for whatever reason the AI hasn't heard of Mords, Bigby, IGMs, Epic Warding, Mestils, Or any of the other spells that don't suck on BL. Hell, the drow weapon master and queen can be killed solo by any lvl33 caster/PM and in theory that combo should be nearly unstoppable.
Also, in PnP the DM will usually try to make the adventure challenge all the characters. If no one is playing a rogue there isn't likely to be a lot of traps and locks. If there a druid and a ranger I'd plan a lot of stuff in the woods. I'd also try to steer people away from parties that made no sense. In BL there are a lot of options given the ultra high magic. But it has a distorting effect. Some classes are too weak to be more than a novelty build.
well, kids awake so I gotta g
Question One: What was that Spirit like before computerized gaming?
Have fun with friends
Question Two: Has computerized gaming changed this Spirit and if so, Why?
No. Same thing as before. Just different tools. So now we don't have to be in the same room.
Question Three: What is the modern Spirit of Dungeons?
Didn't change. Still have fun with friends.
DragonsQuestion Four: Why is this Spirit important?
If it wasn't fun I wouldn't play. If it didn't give me a chance to do stuff with my friends I'd probably just download modules from the vault.
I have no idea why I didn't say this first.
oh yeah, sometimes I forget that.
Just for the record, I was writing "poetry" because I was playing a bard and was actually roleplaying a bard. It also scored me bonus XP.
What's wrong with poetry? I like poetry. Your stuff was pretty good iirc
Jim Brannick said...
Just for the record, I was writing "poetry" because I was playing a bard and was actually roleplaying a bard. It also scored me bonus XP.
Now that's the Spirit.
Did Simon get XP for biting your leg or was it more personal?
LMAO
lol. He's lucky that was the only thing I did to his leg as I recall.
Nothing like a couple of poetry writing leg-biters to make a campaign interesting! :P
The character Simon played at the time was eventually captured by an inter-dimensional warlord who unleashed him on worlds he needed to soften up.
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